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TonNat

Problems using the compass

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Hi

Aplogies if this has been queried before it is my first post. I have searched down the recent posts.

My wife and I use Cachly on iPhone. When navigating to a cache using the compass mode I frequently find my compass does not spin /move as I am moving. It does count down as I get closer to GZ but does not navigate me in the right direction. My wife's phone only does it very occasionally and if coming out of the compass and going back in it generally resolves it but mine is more more temperamental. I end up having to use a different app to navigate to GZ but would rather use Cachly.

Thanks

Tony

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I am using an IPhone 6. It is version 2.0.3 (4).

it is a frequent issue I have. We are generally ok as use my wife's phone but when I am out alone I have to use a different app unless I know where I am going. 

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1 minute ago, TonNat said:

it is a frequent issue I have. We are generally ok as use my wife's phone but when I am out alone I have to use a different app unless I know where I am going. 

Any other apps don't seem to have problems with the compass?

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I have seen this sort of behavior with Geosphere fairly frequently. I mostly ignore the compass direction arrow as long as the distance is going down. My guess is that it is related to the phone compass getting messed with by the large hunk of metal on wheels that I arrived in. It eventually sorts itself out over time. If I have data, I will use Sat view to direct my walking direction. 

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I've seen that happen in most applications that use the compass, especially when entering or exiting the geomobile, it's not just a Cachly thing.

To get it to work better when this happens, I usually hold my phone out and twist my wrist around a few times so the phone gets to all sorts of orientations and this often helps to get things back on track.

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There seam to be more than one problem with the compass. It will not remain in navigation mode while approaching a cache reverting back to north orientation if you touch the screen at all. 

I have my second letter in to Tim Cook about this and compass recalibration if you change location by several miles. Problem seams to be that Apple is not familiar with the difference between magnetic and true north and thus does not accept this as a problem

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On 6/17/2017 at 8:18 AM, acachebox said:

There seam to be more than one problem with the compass. It will not remain in navigation mode while approaching a cache reverting back to north orientation if you touch the screen at all. 

This is not a problem with the compass at all. This is the standard way that maps work in iOS and in the iOS Maps app. We do have a feature request in for developing our own functionality for this to "lock" the map rotation mode. Hoping it can make it into 3.0.1.

On 6/17/2017 at 8:18 AM, acachebox said:

I have my second letter in to Tim Cook about this and compass recalibration if you change location by several miles. Problem seams to be that Apple is not familiar with the difference between magnetic and true north and thus does not accept this as a problem

You are writing letters to Tim Cook about this?

I would guarantee that Apple knows the difference between magnetic and true north, they have thousands of developers working on iOS. 

What specific issue are you having pertaining to magnetic and true north?

 

One other important question, do you have a case on your phone that has metal in it? Also, does the iOS Compass app work correctly while Cachly compass does not?

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I am sorry Nic I have to stand with both of my comments.

The older versions of IOS did not have the problem of dropping the navigation setting. That problem came with the version before 10.3.1.

As for the comment that apple is not aware of the difference between magnetic and true north I have to make my judgement on the several hours of phone conversation I have had with them on the subject. It was like talking to a wall. The final suggestion i was given was to send Feedback to Apple as that was the only way to get to someone that might understand my question. I sent Feedback and got no reply.

There was a way to calibrate an I phone compass in the older version. And once calibrated and set to navigation the phone would hold that setting. Having eliminated that feature I have got to assume some programmer thought it was a superfluous function and removed it from the programing.

Cook should have my second letter on the subject and I will post if that brings results.

I am not a programmer so I can only tell you what my several years of caching with an I Phone has changed and why I am questioning the change.

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23 minutes ago, acachebox said:

The older versions of IOS did not have the problem of dropping the navigation setting. That problem came with the version before 10.3.1.

What navigation setting are you meaning?

Did you see my question about if the iOS Compass app works correctly? And if you are using a case that has metal on it?

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When I say navigation I mean the setting of the small arrow in the lower right corner of the cachly page. When that arrow is green and pointing to the top of the i phone the system is navigating, pointing the i phone center line, directly to cache. Any touching of the I Phone screen will cause that setting to revert to a north orientation of the map and thus point away from the cache. Once started towards a cache I have to constantly check the setting to be sure I am still headed in the right direction.

I have compared the i phone compass to a lensatic compass for magnetic north. Sometimes they agree and somethings they don't causing me to want a calibration option as the older software had.

In every case of testing I have either been in the field or away from any metal objects.

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19 hours ago, acachebox said:

Any touching of the I Phone screen will cause that setting to revert to a north orientation of the map and thus point away from the cache. Once started towards a cache I have to constantly check the setting to be sure I am still headed in the right direction.

You can double tap the screen to zoom in or two finder tap to zoom out without the map orientation changing. In 3.0 we also have a new heading indicator that shows on the current location point, which is very helpful.

19 hours ago, acachebox said:

I have compared the i phone compass to a lensatic compass for magnetic north. Sometimes they agree and somethings they don't causing me to want a calibration option as the older software had.

Have you checked the iOS Compass app to see if it shows the same as Cachly? Here is something to try:

  1. Open the Settings application.
  2. Tap on Privacy.
  3. Select on Location Services.
  4. Kill the Compass and afterward switch it back ON.

Also, make sure that Privacy > Location Services > System Services > Compass Calibration is turned on.

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The setting were as you note.

Where and what is this new heading indicator?

Map and compass navigates to the same location. Zoom in and out functions work as expected. Touching the scree and we are off to the races 120 degrees from the cache. Now I would most likely notice a change of that magnitude but a change of less than 20 degrees would lead me off the track till I realized the navigation setting had dropped.

I doubt that either of these would effect the fact that the I Phone no longer corrects for change in location.

Just for clarification the indicating arrow in the lower right corner of the page has 3 modes. Look like the first is north orientation and the third is navigation. What is the second since it does not seam to change anything from the first other than fil; in the arrow in green.?

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15 minutes ago, acachebox said:

Just for clarification the indicating arrow in the lower right corner of the page has 3 modes. Look like the first is north orientation and the third is navigation. What is the second since it does not seam to change anything from the first other than fil; in the arrow in green.?

These are follow modes. 1 is normal, 2 is follow, 3 is follow with heading. So 2 will follow you and move the map but will not change the heading of the map.

16 minutes ago, acachebox said:

Where and what is this new heading indicator?

This is in our 3.0 beta.

Remind me what iPhone you are using? I am wondering if there is a hardware issue here. A huge amount of Cachly users are also on iOS 10.3 and we have not had any other reports of this issue.

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The senior techs that contacted me after my first letter to Tim Cook had no idea, of how to calibrate the compass, when asked the question so I tend to discount the store.

We are tilting at windmills here. Lets wait to see if I get a response to my current letter.

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Nic's already told you how to recalibrate the compass:  follow his steps 1-4 above, plus the para after that.

Are you using Navigate to Cache?  When you get close to a cache, the Compass tab is much easier to use than the Map tab.

Apple's feedback pages are explicit that your suggestion will be read but not replied to.

I'm sure Apple knows about magnetic and true north :lol:  Maybe you struck the wrong guy or were talking at cross purposes.  e.g. The iOS Compass app can be switched between true and magnetic north.

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10 hours ago, barefootguru said:

Nic's already told you how to recalibrate the compass:  follow his steps 1-4 above, plus the para after that.

I have done those steps after Nic posted them and several times while Apple and I were on the phone. NO EFFECT.

Are you using Navigate to Cache?  When you get close to a cache, the Compass tab is much easier to use than the Map tab.

The problem is while using navigate to Cache in either map or compass mode. Yesterday while on the phone with Apple Tech both were off by 15 degrees or more. Apple has suggested they would send me a new phone but my question to them is how did 2 phones fail in the same way at the same time the new software came out. They could not answer that question.

Apple's feedback pages are explicit that your suggestion will be read but not replied to.

Yes that is clearly stated. The issue is that Apple Customer service can not get to the Engineering group and get an answer either.

I'm sure Apple knows about magnetic and true north :lol:  Maybe you struck the wrong guy or were talking at cross purposes.  e.g. The iOS Compass app can be switched between true and magnetic north.

Of the 2 Apple employees I spoke to yesterday one did in fact have some knowledge of how a compass worked. He is scheduled to call back today hopefully with some information. I have asked him to try and find a cacher at his office that we might be able to work together while on the phone.

 

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I had a phone call from Apple today. The current software is self calibrating. However it requires some movement of the compass to cause this self calibration. To insure calibration has taken place one should physically wobble the phone in the palm of ones hand before attempting to use. Another method is to go to settings, compass calibration, turn calibration off, turn off the phone, and then turn it back on. Turn compass calibration on again in settings.

Tried this while on the phone with Apple and compared the results to my lensatic compass. They matched.

The remaining problem is the fact that the Cachly app will not remain in navigation mode while moving towards a cache. Any touching of the screen reverts the compass to north orientation. Something that Nic has said he hopes to correct in future software. Considering the screen touch commands currently used by Apple that may be a problem.

 

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1 minute ago, acachebox said:

Tried this while on the phone with Apple and compared the results to my lensatic compass. They matched.

Thanks for updating us!

1 minute ago, acachebox said:

Considering the screen touch commands currently used by Apple that may be a problem.

Can you explain what you mean?

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Apple currently has several different Screen Swips to change functions on the I Phone. Swiping the screen to the right or left  changes the page displayed, swiping up or down brings up fast access to several functions, Tapping the screen with 3 fingers has different function depending on what screen you are on. While it is not clear that any of these are causing the problem one has to question if they are. Another function that may come into play is the accessibility function that replaces the home button. 

All I know at this point is if I am in navigation mode, map or compass, I frequently loose that mode after having touched the screen while walking towards a cache. The app reverts to north orientation.

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3 minutes ago, acachebox said:

All I know at this point is if I am in navigation mode, map or compass, I frequently loose that mode after having touched the screen while walking towards a cache. The app reverts to north orientation.

I think I mentioned this before, but this is standard and expected functionality for an MKMapView in iOS. This is just how it works when you touch the screen the map will stop all follow modes. This is also the way the iOS Maps app works, this is the way the Official Groundspeak app works, and I am pretty sure all other Geocaching apps work this way as well. Not trying to be defensive, it just isn't a quick problem to solve for a number of reasons.

I realize this is not ideal for most Geocachers as they want to "lock" the follow mode. This is functionality that we are going to need to develop ourselves to override how iOS maps current work. It is something we will be working on for an upcoming version.

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Nic I am sorry but I have never had any other map app, and I use 3 different ones on my phones and 3 different ones in my cars, loose the navigation mode, what you call a follow mode, while in use.

If it is in fact a function of IOS that I have never experienced then yes it is a problem that has to be solved. Groundspeak themselves is going out of their way to kill caching with the halt of a system that did work and replacing it with one that most fled from when it came out of the box.

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39 minutes ago, acachebox said:

Nic I am sorry but I have never had any other map app, and I use 3 different ones on my phones and 3 different ones in my cars, loose the navigation mode, what you call a follow mode, while in use.

If it is in fact a function of IOS that I have never experienced then yes it is a problem that has to be solved. Groundspeak themselves is going out of their way to kill caching with the halt of a system that did work and replacing it with one that most fled from when it came out of the box.

I am just trying my best to do my part in creating a Geocaching app that everyone loves and wants to use. 

It is a work in progress as is any software. 

More great stuff to come!

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I think I may have narrowed the problem down a bit.

The problem of not holding the navigation mode while moving to a cache appears to only be a problem while using map feature  in navigation mode. While using this function any touching of the screen and then the removal of your finger from the screen of the I Phone causes the map to revert to north orientation. If you attempt to expand the map view or move the map view as soon as you lift your finger off the screen the map will revert to North orientation. This problem does not happen if you are using the compass mode. Even though you would have no reason to touch the screen in compass mode accidental touches have no effect o the orientation.

At this point i do not have any other app to check this issue against.

I have advised Apple that I think I have narrowed the problem to this single function and asked them if it could be caused by one of their screen touch functions.

 

 

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