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Don't understand how the pointer works


Thot

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I should explain I'm very poor at using Cachly.  I normally cache using my car's navigator switching to a handheld GPSr when I'm near the destination.  I only use Cachly for certain things.

Yesterday I was using it for the first time in a while.  From a map I knew about where the cache was. When I parked I selected it in Cachly and tried to use Cachly to go to the location.  After I selected the cache I changed to what I think is the navigation screen. It pointed about 350' away.  As I went toward the cache the line did not change.  I expected the pointer/line to change as I walked toward where it was pointing like my handheld does, but it didn't.  As it turned out I was nearer the cache initially.  I finally realized I could watch the number of feet and that took me to the cache.  If I had had to depend on the pointer I would have never found it. 

So, how is that pointer/line supposed to work?

 

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  • 3 months later...

Okay, I'm back.  I forgot and left my handheld in the car when I left the car for a 4 week repair.  Being without, I decided to try Cachly again. Based on my prior experience I ignored the pointer planning to use the distance which worked last time.  No luck this time. I was looking for a skirt lifter in a parking lot with 7-8 light poles. When I arrived in the parking lot I stopped and started Cachly and selected the cache.    It said I was 98' from the target.  I drove all around the parking lot and it never changed from 98'.  It dawned on me to refresh, so I tapped the bullseye thing.  It came up something like 350'.  Again as I drove around it did not change.  I tried this a couple more times. Each time it gave a different number but, like before, it didn't change until I tapped the bullseye again.  Unless someone can break the code, I'm deciding I'm unable to cache using a phone, at least with Cachley.  I've been caching for 16 years and I don't understand how anyone uses a cell phone to cache. 

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18 hours ago, Thot said:

Unless someone can break the code, I'm deciding I'm unable to cache using a phone, at least with Cachley.  I've been caching for 16 years and I don't understand how anyone uses a cell phone to cache. 

This is very strange. I cannot replicate this issue, and we have never had any other users report this, it always works.

What phone are you using? Do other apps have issues with location services?

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I use an iPhone 6s.  Off hand, I don't think I let any other apps use location services. Oh, wait, maybe I  occasionally let Google Maps use it.  I should mention when I'm some distance away (say a block or miles) it points in the correct direction and gives what seems to be the correct distance.  But, I don't follow it to the general location, I use my Nuvi for that, so I don't know if it changes.

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4 hours ago, Thot said:

No ideas?

Unfortunately no. I cannot replicate this, and no other user has reported this, so it remains a very curious issue.

If you can do some testing, it would be helpful. Have you tried navigating to the cache from a long distance and not turning off your phone to see if you get to the cache and the distance continues to update?

One last thing could be that the GPS and location services in your older iPhone isn't working as well anymore, that is just a hunch, but the last thing I can think of.

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Yesterday afternoon I made this test.

The screen shot of Google map shows where I was, the direction I was traveling, the location of the cache and the direction the pointer line was pointing.

I made a screen shot of my phone at the point indicated on the map. I was in the passenger seat with the phone tilted maybe 45 degrees forward. As you can see, the pointer points slightly behind me to my right.  This was not the starting point, we had driven maybe 1/2 mile in  roughly the same direction when I made the screen shot.

The distance measurment took us to about 400' from the cache where I terminated the test.  

cachley.jpg

IMG_1709.jpg

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The pointer is using the compass vs GPS/travel direction. It has to do with where the front of the iPhone is pointing and not the direction you are traveling. It is also no so reliable when inside a car as there are lots of metal and electronics.  Maybe next time you are out caching, with the phone level in your hand and the front of the phone pointing at the cache, it should point to where you need to go.  It might take a min or two to settle down if you pull it from the car. 

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Holding the iPhone flat rather than vertical or slanted can help as noted in Apple info. Also right after jumping out of the metal cage (car) it can take a bit before readings settle down. I'm very familiar with your problem of needing to walk where the line points and distance goes down while the compass points elsewhere. 
 

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/compass-iph1ac0b663/ios

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On 1/3/2021 at 3:22 PM, Team DEMP said:

 Maybe next time you are out caching, with the phone level in your hand and the front of the phone pointing at the cache, it should point to where you need to go. 

I don't have to wait 'till next time.  All of your conditions were met (except a completely flat phone) in my example above.  The phone was pointing in the direction of travel and the pointer was at right angles to the direction to the cache. 

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On 1/3/2021 at 3:57 PM, rragan said:

 right after jumping out of the metal cage (car) it can take a bit before readings settle down. I'm very familiar with your problem of needing to walk where the line points and distance goes down while points elsewhere. 
 

I don't understand what the "compass is."  But, in the metal cage,  as long as I'm moving the line on my handheld points accurately toward the cache. I've never seen it fail except near tall buildings. 

Maybe cellphones just don't work well for this activity.

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8 minutes ago, Thot said:

I don't have to wait 'till next time.  All of your conditions were met (except a completely flat phone) in my example above.  The phone was pointing in the direction of travel and the pointer was at right angles to the direction to the cache. 

Have you tried the test at home, outside of a car? The red arrow on our current location is pointing in the direction of the top of your phone. If this isn't happening, when comparing it to the map you are seeing, then there is likely and issue with the compass in your iPhone.

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1 minute ago, Thot said:

Maybe cellphones just don't work well for this activity.

There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Geocachers using the various geocaching apps on mobile devices, as well as over 5 years worth of happy Cachly customers. We haven't ever had this issue reported, so that is why I was thinking it could be an issue with the device itself.

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2 minutes ago, Thot said:

I didn't know the phone had a compass, I'll find it and test it. 

Yes, there is compass hardware inside of the iPhone, which is what controls the compass in Cachly on the navigate to cache screen, as well as the red heading indicator. If you test the iOS compass app, please see if it performs correctly so we can use it as a comparison. 

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2 minutes ago, Thot said:

I don't understand what the "compass is."  But, in the metal cage, the line on my handheld points accurately toward the cache. I've never seen it fail except near tall buildings. 

Maybe cellphones just don't work well for this activity.

A compass is not a GPS. A compass won't fail because of buildings - a GPS might get multi-path signals that confuse it. A compass is influenced by external factors like a magnet in your case or in a metal cage like a car, while a GPS could work fine in that same situation. The pointer in Cachly relies on the compass functionality in your iPhone. All Cachly is doing is visually showing what your iPhone is telling it. So as a couple of folks here have posted, after you arrive in your car at a cache, if you'd like yo use the pointer, let your phone settle down so the compass is working as it should and direction should be mostly accurate.

You can take Cachly out of the equation and just launch the compass app on your phone. Is it showing North on the compass app like you'd expect is due North? If so, switch back to Cachly, holding it flat with the front (top) of your phone pointing straight ahead, walk a few steps and see if the pointer adjusts to where the cache is. 

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6 minutes ago, Nic Hubbard said:

There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Geocachers using the various geocaching apps on mobile devices, as well as over 5 years worth of happy Cachly customers. We haven't ever had this issue reported, so that is why I was thinking it could be an issue with the device itself.

Perhaps so, but the only time I have arrived at a cache where someone was using a cellphone, she was 50' from the cache watching her phone and walking in the opposite direction.  It may just be new cachers, but posted coordinates seem to be further off nowadays.

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8 minutes ago, Nic Hubbard said:

Yes, there is compass hardware inside of the iPhone, which is what controls the compass in Cachly on the navigate to cache screen, as well as the red heading indicator. If you test the iOS compass app, please see if it performs correctly so we can use it as a comparison. 

Interesting

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Found the compass and it seems to work outside the car.  I will check when inside the car later, but I can see where a magnetic compass wouldn't work inside the car.  Compasses inside cars must be in a fixed location and calibrated for that location. 

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I leave you with this for now. 

I don't understand why you're using the compass.  As has been pointed out, a magnetometer is confused by the metal in the car.  So, by using the compass you're causing the pointer to be screwed up.  On the other hand, as long as the user points the phone in the direction of travel, you (the author of Cachly) can use the GPS signal to determine north and which way to the pointer should point.  I assume that's how my handheld and my Nuvi determine north.  As long as I'm moving both point accurately to north. In or out of the car, the pointer on my handheld works correctly.  So, if you use the compass to create the pointer this difference is why I have been confused by your program's behavior. 

 

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In 2005/6 when I got my Garmin 76cx , the high end handled GPSr at the time,  it had an electronic compass. 
 

I don’t need a pointer when driving. When I’m driving the map directions are guiding me. The pointer and its use of the compass is useful to me as I’m walking/hiking to a cache. 

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14 hours ago, Thot said:

So, if you use the compass to create the pointer this difference is why I have been confused by your program's behavior. 

This is not something that I would use the GPS "course" data for. That is only for when you are moving that it will show the correct direction of movement. The heading indicator is not this.

It requires the compass because you can stand stationary in one location and rotate and the course indicator will change using the compass to point you in the direction of the cache based on the top of your device. This is not something that GPS course direction can do, as it doesn't update when a user rotates a compass.

I think we should just move on from this topic, unless you have another specific question, as I feel this is getting a bit heated.  Thanks.

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Sorry, it was not my intention to be abrasive.  I simply didn't understand and had become frustrated.  And I also believe we can leave the discussion because I now understand how the pointer works. 

There's still an issue I don't understand.  Like the incident Posted December 21, 2020.

But, it's the only time the distance did not change as I moved.  Perhaps it was just a fluke or perhaps I was moving to slowly.  

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13 hours ago, Thot said:

Have you considered making it an option to use GPS course for the pointer?

No, as the pointer is specifically a heading indicator, which GPS course cannot do. Think about if you are standing close to a geocache, rotating your body looking for the cache, the compass will provide correction direction for the pointer in relation the tip of your phone, so when looking at the map you know exactly which way you are facing. GPS course cannot do this unless the user walks for a distance.

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